Jock wrote:
Nothwithstanding that I disagree with the "tree protestors" and their supporters and that I hate littering, for me the key point about this story is that this young man's DNA and fingerprint records are now on file. Will they be destroyed because he was released without charge? I don't think so. The rules seem to say that if you are arrested for a criminal offense even if that charge is then dropped or no charges preferred they have the right to take it and keep it permanently. I hope someone will prove me wrong, but to me it seems they use any excuse to extend the reach of the state. I would argue that until his DNA is returned to him, they have not actually released all of him without charge, but held a bit of him on file as a suspect in every future crime they want to check him against. "Minority Report" has arrived!

Molly Walsh wrote:
There are always the same small minded vitriolic individuals making derogatory comments on those who are concerned enough about the environment to make a stand. Perhaps one day they may care enough about something to make a protest themselves, though I imagine they would be too cowardly and gutless. These same spineless wonders also stand by and say nothing when the police become rather "enthusiastic" and abuse their powers. Mind you, in Nazi Germany similar spineless people stood by as the atrocities were carried out in the concentration camps. You are small minded cretins who have most likely seen nothing of life.

Tarbatt wrote:
Molly - good call. I think all these bullies and cowards who line up to shower spiteful abuse at environmental campaigners would have been very much at home in Berlin in 1936. Happy to take orders from the state, denouncing dissidents, beating up the weak - they would have loved it.

Molly Walsh wrote:
There are always the same small minded vitriolic individuals making derogatory comments on those who are concerned enough about the environment to make a stand. Perhaps one day they may care enough about something to make a protest themselves, though I imagine they would be too cowardly and gutless. These same spineless wonders also stand by and say nothing when the police become rather "enthusiastic" and abuse their powers. Mind you, in Nazi Germany similar spineless people stood by as the atrocities were carried out in the concentration camps. You are small minded cretins who have most likely seen nothing of life.

DanOxford wrote:
MOLLY: Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

Molly Walsh wrote:
Well Joe, I have worked in several countries, including China. I wrote about the potential ecological risks of going ahead with the Three Gorges Dam across the Yangtze River. The Chinese government ignored critics who forecast it would be an environmental disaster. Top officials in Beijing now openly say the Three Gorges Dam is a colossal mistake and has turned into an environmental nightmare. Tell me Joe, have you ever seen the real world. Or have you not got beyond your computer keyboard? What small minded and blinkered people you are.

alan page wrote:

Molly Walsh wrote: Well Joe, I have worked in several countries, including China. I wrote about the potential ecological risks of going ahead with the Three Gorges Dam across the Yangtze River. The Chinese government ignored critics who forecast it would be an environmental disaster. Top officials in Beijing now openly say the Three Gorges Dam is a colossal mistake and has turned into an environmental nightmare. Tell me Joe, have you ever seen the real world. Or have you not got beyond your computer keyboard? What small minded and blinkered people you are.

Well, bully for you Molly. Now please explain quite how the removal of this ONE tree and its replacement by FOUR trees is going to adversely affect the enviroment? Please also answer the question posted on another thread here as well. What did Gabriel acheive apart from lots of self publicity? How does this tree compare to the acres of trees being removed in the Americas to cater for the Biofuels market? How does the enviromental impact of this one tree measure up to the amount land being cleared to cater for smackheads Afghanistan or for Cokeheads in Columbia? If you seriously gave a toss about anythng beyond self promotion and career advancement, those issues would be at the top of your agenda. Not some alleged smackhead piddling around in a tree in a provincial town.

Andrew wrote:
It wouldn't appear that it was the intention of the individual to litter. Was he given the opportunity to retrieve the bottle and "dispose" of it properly? Probably not. It really doesn't look good when the authorities pick and choose who to pursue. I trust there will now follow a zero tolerance policy in central Oxford for all littering. It's now clear that every piece of gum stuck to the pavement is evidence of a crime being committed and, of course, DNA could easily be collected from it.

Ron wrote:
> I don't think any rational person would argue that such routine swabs are the end of civilisation as we know it. Living under a government who keeps "misplacing" all your personal details and that so far has addressed any perceived problem in society with more repressive laws you may be surprised.

alan page wrote:
I wonder whether the anti-police brigade would feel the same about them were they to be burgled? Perhaps the "fascist oppressors" will just laugh at them and refuse to attend. I think that would be quite amusing.

Woody wrote:
What the hell is that green thing on his mouth in the photo above. Did he eat the tree??

joe wrote:

alan page wrote:

Molly Walsh wrote: Well Joe, I have worked in several countries, including China. I wrote about the potential ecological risks of going ahead with the Three Gorges Dam across the Yangtze River. The Chinese government ignored critics who forecast it would be an environmental disaster. Top officials in Beijing now openly say the Three Gorges Dam is a colossal mistake and has turned into an environmental nightmare. Tell me Joe, have you ever seen the real world. Or have you not got beyond your computer keyboard? What small minded and blinkered people you are.

Well, bully for you Molly. Now please explain quite how the removal of this ONE tree and its replacement by FOUR trees is going to adversely affect the enviroment? Please also answer the question posted on another thread here as well. What did Gabriel acheive apart from lots of self publicity? How does this tree compare to the acres of trees being removed in the Americas to cater for the Biofuels market? How does the enviromental impact of this one tree measure up to the amount land being cleared to cater for smackheads Afghanistan or for Cokeheads in Columbia? If you seriously gave a toss about anythng beyond self promotion and career advancement, those issues would be at the top of your agenda. Not some alleged smackhead piddling around in a tree in a provincial town.

Thank you Alan for seeing the bigger picture rather the obsessive blinkered view some people have.

I wonder whether the anti-police brigade would feel the same about them were they to be burgled?

Perhaps the "fascist oppressors" will just laugh at them and refuse to attend.

I think that would be quite amusing.

alan page wrote:

Andrew wrote:
It wouldn't appear that it was the intention of the individual to litter. Was he given the opportunity to retrieve the bottle and "dispose" of it properly? Probably not. It really doesn't look good when the authorities pick and choose who to pursue. I trust there will now follow a zero tolerance policy in central Oxford for all littering. It's now clear that every piece of gum stuck to the pavement is evidence of a crime being committed and, of course, DNA could easily be collected from it.

Rather like the student who a few years back complained of being arrested for calling a horse gay, I suspect there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Perhaps he was drunk and behaving in an agressive fashion?

I think there is probably more to this than the student is letting on.

Simon wrote:
I agree with Jock about the insidious nature of routine DNA harvesting - the crap about the student and the crusty up a tree is a red herring - whats that poem by Martin Niemöller? "First they came for the Communists...". It's funny how many people only care about injustice when it's happening to people just like themselves. re: DNA - The Government retrospectively changed the law to allow them to keep over 100,000 illegally held DNA and fingerprint samples - such as those from people who were proved innocent and those whose DNA was given voluntarily to eliminate them from enquiries (they were *helping* the police and were promised it would be destroyed!). The law was recently changed again so that DNA can be taken from anyone arrested for anything (previously it was only taken if the person was arrested for a crime that warranted a prison sentence). The Government has a target for populating it's DNA database and it seems that just taking criminals DNA wasn't hitting the mark Occasionally old crimes will be cleared up by using DNA matches found using this trawler approach, but equally there are numerous instances of DNA evidence being key to securing unsafe convictions when there was minimal or non existent corroborating evidence. If you think a DNA database won't be abused then you're a fool. Consider this - if it's so innocuous, why are the police the only people in the country whose DNA and fingerprint records will be destroyed (when the leave the force)? Hmm.